Nautile aka Charles Hamel's personal pages
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This is a rather confused story, not particularly well said and I keep it only in the interest of intellectual honesty

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 Added 2010 Oct 22nd :

ONE OF A KIND BRACELET OFFERED TO ALCOSINUS BY NONO

IF you want to order one from NONO just contact me and I will forward the mail after that it is between you and Norbert TRUPIANO


A NOORBERT TRUPIANO ( Norbert is the normal spelling but this is an eye wink between NONO and I )  IDEA THAT I HAD , TILL NOW, FAILED TO SHOW ON
MY PAGES  SO IN DOUBT I AM THAT THERE ARE THAT MANY PERSONS
ABLE TO DO THIS KNOT.

I have had this one "under the elbow" for some time.

Alcosinus ( Alain LEGEAY) can be seen sporting this very particular bracelet; a gift to him from our common friend NONO .

Nono  made a whole new grid (and don't be silly and say that it is not an invention as this would just show ignorance ) for the making of modified ABoK #1389, a knot linked with
 ABok #3054. THIS ONE IS SINGLE STRAND
The poor dumb ass who wrote "Ok but unless he is 100 years old he didn't invent it. Just find a copy of ABOK and use the print in it." must have a very poor intelligence of knotting to dare to write such a stupidity.
 INDEED NORBERT THOUGH NOT 100 YEARS OLD DID INVENT THE SINGLE STRAND VERSION.

Despite what Ashley may have written ( it is not the first oddity written by that  worthy Author )  THIS IS NOT *repeat NOT* a  Turk's Head K even if it is a cylindrical knot with the visual appearance of a braid.
NOT AT ALL : if only for the reason  that it does not follow a THK cordage route!

Yet a part of the cordage route ( in gray lines ) is indeed  a part of a  6 L  13B THK  'inside' which  'something" is interlaced.

This 'something' is a sinnet or braid.

Don't miss Nono's Excel worksheet for braids in  PUBLICATIONS page.

The grid is in two parts that you will need to glue together so as to get the entire working grid that is then to be put on a cylinder. *** better read the very last paragraph in this topic which is in "plain English" before launching the making of your own bracelet

GRID ONE 14 BIGHT                                 GRID TWO   12 BIGHT

Those grids are downloadable for *personal and private* use only ( as all the illustrations and texts in all this web site).
.If you want to tip friends by posting on forums then use the link to this page but not the grids themselves unless you get written -email- permission by Norbert who has always granted that when being politely asked to do so.

The cylinder I made here using full page printings of each one of Nono's grids is 17 cm in diameter.***
Added later on Oct 22nd, ------------------------------------
after Nono's mail responding to precise questions from me:
I USED ONLY ONE GRID ONE AND ONE GRID TWO. Bad form !
see Nono's instructions. ( Added Nov 2nd : and see Barry BROWN's )

This is SINGLE STRAND, it is worth to be repeated.

Cordage is of a very small diameter , say 1 or 2 mm   tuna line looks like that.
Start with at least  well over 50 meters ( make it 60 ! )
Finished structure has a 17 LEAD width and a braid bight-rim of  26.(with 2 grids )
Well 26 BIGHT as count on the grid but 13 + 13 " SUMMITS " in Nono's parlance.

Added later on Nov 2nd------------------------------------------
A bit of nomenclature : one can count in BIGHT or as did Nono and Barry in SUMMITS.
BIGHT
are numbered in RED  so 12 B
are numbered in BLUE for one series and in GREEN for the other hence 6 + 6
SUMMITS are numbered in black and are in yellow.

In fact I was a little bit lost personally about those "SUMMITS" and the light came from Barry BROWN

[open quote]
I will try to answer all your mails here.
 
this diagram shows 12 outer bights on the pattern, this is clear. the summit parts are the vertical lines that appear in the bottom half of the diagram, there are 6 of these. if you make this knot below; half of the outer bights will not be visible in the finished knot and the knot will appear to have only 6 outer bights.
 
My knot has a diagram with 98 outer bights on it but in the finished knot only 49 are present along the edges, the same as the picture of Alain's knot.
 
The way that Nono is counting his bights; is by counting the summit parts and then multiplying them by 2, so in my knot this would be 49 summit parts x 2 + 98.
 
In Norbert's knot that you do not have a picture of ; he has 109 summit parts, which when multiplied by 2 + 218  outer bights on the diagram but only 109 will be apparent on the edges of the knot.
 
I hope this makes sense??
[end quote
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------

After a hellish dressing that demands to be very neatly done you will get back about half the  length with which you began.
Which is a blessing because it means that if you end a few meters short you may splice or sew another length of cordage to serve as "pulling line" at the time of dressing and as "place holder strand " while laying the knot.



THIS IS NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED !

In  case one of you readers indeed succeed in making this one in the next year please
make contact and send a photo of it for these pages of mine ( act before my death ;-)  ).

I have a notion that the sunrise of that day is not in the astronomical almanacs in print .****

Persons thinking that a HERRINGBONE-PINEAPPLE K. is the epitome of a difficult
type of knot should abstain from attempting the making of this bracelet ( or first try a
5-PASS HERRINGBONE K. to get an inkling of what "difficult knot" may really means ! ).
I don't want to be accused of inducing despair, depression and suicide ;-) in the IGKT
and other knot heads folks of all ilk* . .........Come to think of it............;-)

*( for those not knowing it 'ilk is Scottish just as "wits and ken") -
http://dictionnaire.sensagent.com/ken/en-en/


*** make no mistake those 17 cm in diameter with 2 grids are hopelessly mistaken :
here is the mail I just got from Noorbert ( Oct 22nd 18:45  Zulu time )

**** added 2010 Nov 2nd : CAREFUL WITH THE  COUNT OF 17 GRIDS :
there is an investigation pending as there were TWO SET OF GRIDS used to make
the TWO BRACELETS Norbert made.
Those grids may be quite different in BIGHT COUNT.
So for the time being follow the instructions given by Barry BROWN on his web page  (see down page here for the address ) as they are nearer from us in time and 'verified'' as Barry made used of the grid put  for download here.


Translation/adaptation following
[open quote]
Je te décris un peu les conditions de réalisation de ce bracelet que tu as en photo…

Il est tiré du nœud N°1389 du ABOK (page 251 de la version française) qui est en
fait la transposition en bonnet turc de la tresse N°3054, (page 505 du même ouvrage)

Comme tu sais, j’aime le challenge, mais je n’ai réalisé ce nœud que deux fois…
le seul encore existant encore est celui que possède Alain, le deuxième a été porté et
coupé par la personne à qui je l’avais donné et qui après plusieurs lavage s’est
retrouvé coincé sans pouvoir l’enlever…

Le fil utilisé pour le bracelet en question est de la ligne à thon tressé de marque
« Cousin » de diamètre 1,5mm

Le gabarit (que j’ai toujours), fait effectivement  2,80 m de circonférence, soit
environ 0,90 cm de diamètre.

Si tu compte sur le schéma tu verras 17 brins… soit au moins 17x2,80 soit plus de
50 mètres linéaire de fil… pour réaliser le nouage…

Une fois réalisé, il est resserré et ne représente plus que 0,25 *17 = 4,25 mètres de fil…
Mais si tu veux, tu peux vérifier, j’ai imprimé sur 17 pages A4 du schéma « partie 2 »
( longueur du schéma hors chevauchements de collage de 15,3 cm) + 1 page A4 de
schéma partie 1 avec le croisement (longueur du schéma hors chevauchement de
collage 18cm) ca fait exactement 278,1 cm

Le schéma était fixé et scotché sur une bande de contreplaqué 3mm d’épaisseur et
80mm de largeur… et trois mètres de longueur…

J’ai utilisé un fil de suite (fil de voile, torsadé de 0,5mm) pour exécuter le nœud,
l’avantage est de pouvoir travailler avec des sections de 5 ou 6 mètres que je soude
au briquet… et surtout de pouvoir réparer les erreurs de passage en coupant et
ressoudant ce fil, une fois le schéma complété, j’enlève les épingles et je soude le
fil de suite au fil de réalisation (Tresse cousin de 1,5mm) et je passe en réalisant un
premier serrage régulier… il ne faut pas trop serrer, parce que la différence de
diamètre entre le fil de suite et le fil final doit pouvoir passer, si on serre tout de suite
au diamètre, on ne peut pas finir le passage du final. C’est pour ca qu’il faut prévoir
environ 10 mètres de final dont seulement la moitié sera utilisé à la fin du serrage.

Les dix-sept tours du gabarit m’ont demandé environ 16 heures… je ne compte
pas la vérification visuelle et l’enlèvement des épingles, environ une heure…

Le serrage m’as pris environ 8 heures.

Je n’ai malheureusement pas de photo de l’époque (pas d’appareil), mais j’ai
toujours le matériel utilisé pour la création de ce nœud, qui sais si un jour ca
me reprend…

Le bracelet sera alors pour toi, Charles, c’est sûr…

Pour cela, il faudrait que je retrouve un écheveau de 10m de fil et du temps pour
le faire…  (c’est le moins difficile, Alain pourrait m’en envoyer s’il passe devant
une voilerie)

Il faudrait aussi qu’un bébé (occupé à tourner autour de moi et dont la principale
préoccupation est d’attraper ce fil que papa manipule…) s’arrête environ
deux jours  (ça c’est de l’ordre de l’impossible)

Bien à toi, Norbert


[end quote]

Translation of Norbert's words above:

I am going to describe a little the conditions in which I made the bracelet you have
in this photo.

It is inspired by ABoK #1389 which is in fact a transposition....of sinnet #3054.

As you know I like  a challenge, but I did that knot only twice...
The only one still existent is the one that Alain own, the second one was indeed sported by the person to whom I gave it , but after several washings had the wrist "strangled" and had to cut it.

The cordage used for this bracelet is tuna line, "Cousin" brand, 1.5 millimeter
( nautile : here I use '.' as decimal separator instead of the ',' we Frenches are using)

The mold ( that I still have is indeed of 2.80 meters in circumference, about
90 centimeters in diameter )

If you make a count on the grids you will see 17 LEAD...so at least 17 * 2.80m  that is
over 50 meters in cordage length....to make that knot.

Once it has been dressed and tightened, it is quite compact and use only 25 cm * 17 = 425 cm of the 1.5 mm tuna line.

If you want to verify : I printed
17  A4 sheet  with Grid part 2  ( grid length without the reserved parts for gluing
is 15.3 cm )
plus
A A4 with Grid part 1 ( length without the part for gluing = 18 cm)  
so we have exactly 278.1 cm.
(nautile again : it seems that it may have been other grids with a different number of Bight/summit that Nono is speaking about as he made two bracelets , the 17 Grid may have been quite different from the one given here)
The total grid I taped on a band of 3mm plywood, width= 8 cm and length =3 meters

To make that knot I made use as "guiding thread"  of laid sail thread 0.5mm in diameter, this gives the advantage of being able to work with "unit length" or 5 to 6 meters that I
 "solder" with cigarette lighter...and more than that of being able to 'make good' some
mistake in laying = cut the "guiding thread and lighter soldering. Once the griding and mule netting in sail thread is finished I take the pins off and I solder the tuna line to the guiding thread and I lay down the tuna line with a  very regular tension...without too much tightening because thee is a difference between the guiding thread and the tuna line in their diameter and you must not tighten too much to allow the easy passage of the tuna line., if you tightened directly to the mold diameter  you will not be able to finish laying the tuna line.
That is why you need 10 meters as final length of which only half  will be  in use at
the final phase of the setting.

Making 17 turns around the mould took me about 16 hours...I do not count in that the visual inspection and the pins taking off : about one hour more.

dressing, fairing, setting took 8 hours.

Sadly I do not have (no camera) pictures from that time, but I still have the tools used in the creation of this knot, who knows ? if one day it takes me again....the bracelet will be for you Charles, that is sure.

To do that I would have to find 10 m of sail thread and time....( it is the least difficulty here, Alain could send me some if he pass in front of a sails shop)

I would also need that the baby (much busy making rounds around me and whose main occupation is " catching this thread" that Papa is playing with )  stop moving for two days (THAT is of the order of the impossible)

Yours, Norbert

IF you want to order one from NONO just contact me and I will forward the mail after that it is between you and Norbert TRUPIANO


Added  Nov 1rst

****  I AM NOW PROVEN WRONG and I very much like it  : the almanac giving the sunrise of the day which would see a bracelet coming from brains and hands using Norbert's grids was indeed in print...in U.K
It did not take long for Barry BROWN to accept the dare and beautifully win it !

The three photos there are by courtesy of Barry. (I inserted them at their original place in the quoting of Barry's email)

DO NOT MISS BARRY's SITE :  http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/ropeandcanvas/index.html

Here is what Barry has to tell ( you have his site address just above just in case you need something more.
( added a few hours after this addition about Barry BROWN :
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/ropeandcanvas/page4.html     BARRY BROWN's explanations
in his own page beautifully illustrated)

[open quote]
I will put the details on my web site. ( nautile : now it is done and the address is just above)

here is my finished knot. please feel free to use the pictures on your web site if you like.
It is made with 1.2mm braided Nylon which has no core and was very soft.
SEE PHOTO

Below is the form I made it on, only 220mm diameter.
SEE PHOTO
I used Norbert's patterns and resized them to make them smaller as I don't mind working in small spaces.

I am very grateful to Norbert for making a new pattern as the ABOK #1389 pattern is not very easy to use or join together.

I used 492 pins to hold the knot whilst tying it and around 20 meters of nylon, the finished knot only uses around 5500mm of cord.       

here is a half sized one I made first using the patterns from the ABOK  this one started with 50 bights on the pattern.     SEE PHOTO

Thank you for making the information available on your web site and also many thanks to Norbert for making the patterns and a very worthy challenge ;-) [end quote]

(nautile : Barry says he used 7 + 1 grids after counting 49 + 49 "summits" on the photography that Alcosinus had in his Flickr album,)

Added  Nov 1rst
From Barry BROWN
[open quote]
I have some more accurate measurements of my bracelet, the line I used is actually 1.3mm diameter Nylon, but as it is hollow it flattens out to 1.5mm when braided.
 
I put my bracelet back on the jar that I tightened it on and the inside diameter of the bracelet is 67mm exactly, this is the measurement of the jar diameter, the bracelet is not stretched when put on the jar so this is a pretty accurate measurement. I think originally I got my numbers mixed up and came out with 75 or 76mm?
The outside diameter of the bracelet measured over the summit parts is 79.11mm
[end quote]



Barry  :   1.3 mm   ( instead of 1.5 as in above but as it flatten to 1.5 )
Nono : 1 mm even 0.9mm   today measurement made by Alcosinus on his bracelet

---------------------------------------------------------------
Added 2010 Nov 3rd  18:00
HOURRAY for Barry BROWN observation power !
Final word of the BOARD of ENQUIRY ;-)

Nono after getting a new set of picture from Alcosinus :  PHOTO 1       PHOTO 2  

[open quote]
A la vue de tes photos, il s’avère que les dimensions que j’ai donné sont fausses, il n’y a que 49 sommets sur ce nœud, c’est le premier que j’ai réalisé , il n’y a donc que 8 schémas. Seeing the photos ( Alcosinus's) it appears that the measurements I gave are
mistakened, there are only 49 summits on this knot, it is the first I made , there were only 8 grids all told ( nautile = So Barry you are a good observer and did exactly the identical to the first Nono's bracelet )
Les dimensions que j’ai données sont celles du deuxième bracelet, qui lui a été réalisé en
soie de pêche de 0,4 et qui a été détruit.
The dimensions I gave are those of the second bracelet which was made with a 0.4mm fishing "silk" , this bracelet was destroyed.
La circonférence du schéma est donc de 125cm environ soit un diamètre de 40 cm, ce qui donne125x17 = 21 mètre de fil environ
The circumference of the grids is about 125 cm or a 40 cm diameter which give 125 * 17 = 21 m of cordage or about[end quote]

TO SUMMARIZE
7 GRIDS + 1 GRID and use a cordage similar to the one use by Nono and Barry
---------------------------------------------------------------


so the BRACELET HALL OF FAME :
* First to make it and inventor of the single-strand grid which is NOT ins ABoK = NORBERT TRUPIANO - FRANCE
*  second to make that bracelet  BARRY BROWN - UNITED KINGDOM

who will  be third ?  ( after third all places are as equals as unnoticeable ! )


Added 2010 Nov 8th  11:15
THIRD IS AndreeTREFFENFELD ( Igkt-GERMANY )

He was among the first to be told of the bracelet being put on line, he read the first version where I spoke of the cylinder I made with the 2 grids and he was mislead by my ham-fisted attempt at clarifying the use of the two templates.

So he ended up with this MINIATURE which is not yet fully "faired and dressed" but as my Mother used to say with a Burgundy proverb (should be phonetically written to give a 'taste' of the Burgundy 'patois' ) : " Il n'y a pas de mal que bien n'en vienne" " There is not bad that good can not come from"

So the positive points are :

*** this miniature demands a lot less time but offers the same difficulties per centimeter
than " 7+1 GRID" models and in the cordage it was done with and due also
to the angle of the shot it gives an ease of "visual acquisition of the details" that I do not feel with the previous views.

*** it exemplify why I HATE SO MUCH mistakes and errors ( like my " simplistic from SIMPLISTIC" cylinder ) being propagated and misleading someone.
Andree and others I do beg your pardon but let that be a lesson for all.

Andree said that by the end of the week he will tell me "diameter of cylinder" and "diameter of  cordage used"  BUT I wanted to claim bronze medal for him.
Now by French law this has been published (and 'registered' automatically as all that is published on French web site ) ;-)
I hope he will add circumference and diameters( internal and external )

Despite my : " ( after third all places are as equals as unoticeable ! ) "
I will be quite happy to put here photographies up to the sixth place like with the names
of the makers of the 360 faces spherical cover.



CLARIFICATION AFTER BEING ASKED A QUESTION


The "main length" so to speak is given by the number of  12 BIGHT grids used
the 14 BIGHTgrid is for "closing or re-entering the curve" to get a circle.

So with a cordage of about ONE millimetre ( Nono) to ONE millimetre and 3/10 (Barry) in diameter Nono and Barry used SEVEN of the 12 B grids/templates PLUS ONE of the 14 B grid


+ 12B + 12B + 12B + 12B + 12B +12B +12B + 14B +

 + gluing zones close the circle ( look a Barry's photo of his cylinder , he redimmensionned Nono's grid to his convenience ))

 + gluing zone makes the " main length"

 + gluing zone attached "the finishing 14 B" grid to the "main length"

Imagine the 14B grid is the traction machine of a train , the 12 B grids are the wagons. 
The front of traction machine links with the rear of last wagon of the train.

My simplistic 2-GRID cylinder is a very short train = one traction machine and one wagon 

+ 12B + 14B +  is NOT a building unit, NOT A LEGO BRICK but the FULL construction.
The Building LEGO Bricks are of 2 types = 12 B and 14B and ONLY ONE 14 B is to be
used.

With a 4/10 of millimetre cordage Norbert used SEVENTEEN ( 17 ) of the 12 B grids and
ONE of the 14B grids
+ 12B + 12B + 12B + 12B + 12B +12B +12B + 12B + 12B + 12B + 12B +12B +12B + 12B + 12B + 12B + 12B  + 14B +

The crossing of wires in the explanation came from the fact that it was Alcosinus's bracelet (7 + 1 ) that was shown as illustration and that Norbert first wrote of the ( 17+1) bracelet he had done for his nephew.
Claude  asked a question and I pestered every one ( Alain , Barry, Norbert) to clarify .

Barry (he is a really "one of a kind" guy with knots ) simply "counted" on the photo and deduced 7 grids plus 1 and had some luck with the cordage diameter which was not grossly different from what Norbert used for Alain's bracelet.



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Click address to mail to Nautile / Charles.
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Copyright 2005 Sept - Charles Hamel / Nautile -
Overall rewriting in August 2006 . Copyright renewed. 2007-2014 -(each year of existence)

Url : http://charles.hamel.free.fr/knots-and-cordages/